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Rebellion in Heaven - Rebellion
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| Rebellion in HeavenHere is a thought for discussion. In Genesis 1:1 the literal translation from the Hebrew is, "In the beginning the Gods (Plural)created the heaven and the earth." Isaiah 45:18 says that this world was created "not in vain" (Heb. Tohu, or empty), that is, the world was made perfect and inhabited. Jeremiah 4:23 says that the world was without form and void, which agrees with Genesis 1:2. This period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is often refered to as the dispensation of angels because angels ruled various planets. (I will give Biblical references upon request.) This pre-adamite world was in the dateless past and of indeterminate length. This time is believed to be a time before Adam (a pre-adamite race) that was finally destroyed by a flood that was similar but not the same as the flood of Noah's time. Since Angels ruled the planets, including Earth, this eventually led to Satan's rebellion and eventual overthrow, the re-creation of earth, the creation of Adam and Eve and the life forms that we currently know. So here are my questions: 1) Do you believe in literal "demons" & "Angels"? 2) Of whom and what did this pre-Adamite race consist, giants, nephillim, dinosaurs, Hercules, Xena, Atlantis? 3) What caused God to destroy this race? 4) If angels and demons existed then do you believe they exist now, and if not, what happened to them? 4) Could the "gods" described in Genesis 1:1 be aliens from a different planet or solar system, planting their life form here through the use of Nephillim? 5) Might they want to return someday to collect their specimens-us? 6) Or, might they get disgusted with us the way they did with the pre-Adamite race and destroy the world again? Any opinions will be appreciated, what do you think? |
| And, what does this have to do with our daily lives? Shall we fear that the end is near? Where does this belief in the end of the world come from? Can we not perceive that the world existed for millions of years without us and will do just fine at whatever point we are no longer a living participant? In fact, maybe it will do better! |
| Wow...Good questions... David...I for one refuse to fear the end of the world!! One of the reasons is that fear breeds more fear. We can do more on an individual basis than we give ourselves credit for. Do you know that there was a study done...(I'll have to go back and find the research and post the name of the book...I can't remember right now..) they took water in two seperate containers...looked at it under a microscope and documented what they saw...the molecular structure etc...Then they "blessed" one of the containers of water...and thought happy and positive thoughts...Later they went back and looked at that water and the molecular structure had changed! So I belive if prayer can do THAT...then we can do a lot!! Laurie |
| Dr. Doug I absolutely believe in Angels... My belief in Demons I am really trying to figure out!! I had said NO in the past...but for some reason I keep being led to places that are questioning them and there sure are a lot of people out there that do!! You mentioned in another thread that you have been an excorsist for many years and I work with a paranormal investigation team that clears houses of negative energy... I've never run across anything I would call a demon...but I have run across some really nasty things...All of which I was able to eliminate with tuff love! haha So I guess I am respectufully aware that there might be demons and I am always on my toes....in regards to protecting myself from any kind of negativity! As for the alien theory...Well, my dad was a very firm believer in that idea the last few years of his life. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2001 but the year before he was diagnoese he had a deep awakening to the concept and he made what I can only call a pilgrimage to Roswell and Sedona. The strange thing is that other than a curiosity about such things..he had never really been THAT interested. Suddenly he was really "connecting the dots" so to speak with similarites in the bible and in the ET idea....It brought him some kind of peace when he was diagonsed in July ...and then passed in October. I remember listening to him...He felt really open to talk about it because I was just beginning my spiritual path and was very open and receptive....(OR so I thought!) LOL....I would nod my head and smile and all the time I was thinking.."My dad is loosing it!!" I'd never heard these ideas before! Now after his death I hear them more and more...hmmmmmm must be something I'm to learn from that! Even now ..other than a belief that we are not alone. I don't really have any spiritual connection to the alien race. The Pladiens, Greys and Lizzies mean almost nothing to me....IN fact I get aggrivated with the power that some people give them...I do believe that some folks are abducted and I believe that there is a lot we don't know. I also believe that you can manifest many things in your life..good or bad by your thinking. And I've encountered people who have so adopted this idea..that they have trouble living on THIS planet!! They claim to have been abducted time and time again...implanted...impregnated the list goes on and on. YET if you get them to open up..Many times you discover issues in their past that seem to relate to these things. Such as abandonment issues, molestations, emotional and physical abuse...It's hard not to wonder if at least SOME of the strong belief in it isn't kind of a bandaid for the pain of their reality.. OH GOSH I just go on and on and on...don't I! :-) Shutting up now! Laurie |
| Hi David, Welcome to the board. Apparently I didn't make myself as clear as I should have. I have no interest in "the end of the world" theories apart from their appearance in so many different prophecies in so many diferent religions that it is facinating to me. My main point is that most of us wonder where we came from (before this life-form existence), what our purpose is for living on this planet & and where do we go from here (after we leave this life form)? I quoted many scriptures that indicate a fearsome a judgemental God who plans on destroying the earth because of man's evil nature. This is not my concept of the Creator but it is a very common one that causes people to live in guilt and fear daily. The second reason these questions affect our daily lives is that our answers to these questions give us a clarity for our lives. It also requires that we come to terms with the spiritual forces that surround us, not so we can become afraid but so that we can learn to become stronger spiritually. Whether the planet lasts another million years or not is of no importance to me but how we learn to live victorious lives in spite of the problems and difficulties that we encounter, some of which are spiritual, is very important to our daily lives. Check out Laurie's second reply and you will see that she understands what I am talking about and where I am leading with this thread. |
| Hi Laurie, I see from your second reply to this thread that you have a clue where I am going with it. My point is not that we should fear death or the "end of the world" but that we should recognize that we were put here, on this planet, for a purpose. I don't pretend to know everything but I do know that one of the purpose for living is to find out our purpose and fulfill it in our lives to achieve the greatest amount of happiness. However, because their is evil in the world, we should know our enemy, again not to fear him, but to learn how to overcome him through the power of the Creator (or Source) of our life. If you have followed some of my article you will know that I believe that their is another life (or stage of existence) after this one because the laws of physics demand it. Our physical bodies, or "earth suit" will return to dust and fertilize the soil over the centuries, but our spitit/souls will continue into the next phase of existence. I do not believe in re-incarnation, in the normal sense of the word, I agree with psychologist Karl Jung that past life memories are probably individuals tapping into the "collective unconscious." But I do believe that our spirit/souls came from somewhere (?) and is destined to go somewhere else when we are done with this phase of existence. Some religions call it "heaven" or "hell" others call it by many other names but they all refer to a different and possibly higher life form when we complete this life. I appreciate your story about your father since we share a little in common. A normal developmental stage for senior citizens is coming to grips with death and dying as a natural part of living. None of us get our of this life alive! For many of us, knowing that we have a purpose in life and a destination we're going to afterwards gives us a sense of hope. By understanding our spiritual nature and the gifts the Creator gives us in order to live a victorious life, we are able to live happier and more fulfilled lives in spite of major challenges that each of us go through in this life. The better we know our Creator, regardless of the name we are using for Him/Her right now, in time the Creator will lead us along our own path to true communion with the Source of all life. The closer our relationship to the Creator, the more power we have over the forces of evil because those forces are destroyed by love and the Creator is Love. Peace and love come through intimacy with our Creator and knowing who that Creator is and understanding our spiritual roots. These are a few of the reasons I think the questions I raised on this thread are important to our daily lives...not to live in fear but to live in love and victory. |
| I believe the Pre-Adimite truths. The Book "God's Plan for Man" by: Dake will prove with scripture |
|  Dr. Doug, Laurie, David, et el, I am mostly a cognitive therapist, although I consider myself quite eclectic in the theories that I utilize in therapy However, I ALWAYS address the issues that arise within the mind/body/spirit model. I believe that if we address physical issues only, or psychological issues only, we leave out a big part of the equation...and, I believe, a big part of the "Source of Truth" that is the Spirit of God...whoever He/She may be. I believe that a bit of that Spirit has been literally breathed into each of us, and to deny a client the ability to tap into that strength, that understanding, is to deny them the potential of complete wholeness! I'm not sure I buy into the secular humanistic thought that says we are all basically good, but neither do I buy into the notion that babies born who die are sinners. I DO believe there is good and I DO believe there is evil. I believe certain "evils" carry with them "demonic influence"...whether or not that is literal demons I do not know. However, I DO believe in angels, and therefore, SHOULD believe in their counterparts: demons. This may sound a bit twisted, but I really love the Biblical account of the "fall of satan" and how 1/3 of the angels "fell" with him...it seems to make logical sense to me, that envy would breed rebellion...indeed it ALWAYS does, doesn't it? I use the Greek word "teleios" in my counseling practice to express to folks the idea that therapy and personal and spiritual growth is a process..."growing in wholeness" is a rough translation of the word...there is even an entire theoretical design for teleios techniques in therapy... Anyway, all that to say that if there is a God and He/She is all good, then doesn't it follow that there would be a counterpart or a "shadow" figure that would be all evil? Ponderous thoughts, Paula |
| My religion is not that "steady" yet which led me to research and study Demonology online (and nope I am not an Atheist or a satanist freak). I did a researched on "Angels and Demons" back in my high school days. I have come to knowledge different forms of demonic lords mentioned in the canonized and the non-canonical Bible such names includes Beelzebub, Azrael, Lucifer, Satan. There are also angels which have completely different appearance from what we think of, there are wheel like angels, lion-like creature with wings, multi-winged angels and more. I came also to a study that fallen angels who later took human forms has entered the Catholic church and responsible for not publishing all the dead sea scrolls in the bible. It is said that the canonized bible is not complete and because these fallen angels don't want us to learn about them they made this move. |
| David: you may ask what this has to do with our daily lives, but it has everything to do with our daily lives. Do you forget who blessed us with the gift of life, and everything that we have in it. It sure did not come from luck. Everything we have, experience and for everyday we live is all because of what is being said here, and you ask what does it have to do with our daily life, well everything of course! |
| i am a huge believe in God himself and i think that it is great that you sll are posting scriptures over the internet and spreading his word by doing thos. This is awesine jeeo t u=up, |
| I think Lynn said it pretty well. Everyone views this subject differently. |
| for the Curious and Conscious dude. Is that you conclusion to you high school paper? Did you got a passing grade? I may not not a bible expert but I know there are verses pertaining to fallen angels. Where did you get the idea of fallen angels entering the catholic church just to erase their existence records. The canonized version of the bible is just the bible that was chosen by the catholic religion cause that's the group of books that they only want to use on spreading their religion even before that religion started spread all over. The dead sea scroll have statement which would be hard to comprehend by a common catholic member so it was not made publicly available. That's what I learned watching discovery channel. Lol! |
| Wow..everybody is fighting about angels, demons, the end of the world and everything. The bible is there when all of us were born. Who knows the real story behind it. But I certainly believe that there is God that is above us all. He is the only one who knows when it is our time or it is not. I mean he is the only one who can take everything all back. Instead of fearing the end of the world, let us live our lives according to our will in accordance to his commandments. |
| Well Dr. Doug, I've been saying this to my friends for a long time now concerning the dinosaurs and the bible. Dinosaurs were God's mistake. They are not mentioned anywhere in the bible, and yet scientists are unearthing them all the time. Is there any other logical solution through a religious view? |
| Rather than pose questions to us that will in the end have no answer, why don't you wait for the end time and ask God all these questions? My idea of religion is that there exists a deity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There have been many theories put forward to explain the coming of the end times but they have never come to pass. Religion and spirituality are such diverse and the secret things are better left to Him (Deut 29:29) |
| It is sad that people who watch tv programs actually believes everything that they see and hear. When it comes to issues of beliefs, most people are easily got carried away with what they were told to or what they see in television and in the internet. Why can't we just focus on what the bible say. There is no harm in asking and finding answers, but it is best resolved with the bible. |
| Well, they say issues of religion are so personal and in speaking of what you believe in, you are met with such a great opposition that you begin to question your beliefs. I believe in knowing what is true and living by it and in no way being swayed by those that are normally referred to as false prophets. Initially Doug, in your first post, you cleverly avoided providing answers to the questions in question. It would have been much easier drawing from what your perception of the issues you have raised are. Is it true that you are an exorcist? |
| The main texts of world religions must be taken as articles of faith. Faith is a very particular, personal, area of our lives. We have faith in traffic lights when we cross one because itīs green. If, by any chance, it is also green on the other side (bad electric connection), weīre gone, man! If a truck rolls along. But, with religions having a wrong faith does not usually cause a crash, we will know after if thereīs a heaven or a hell, when itīs too late. Demons, Angels? Sure they exist: Demon - Adolf Hitler, Angel - Mother Teresa. Any more questions? |
| Kiwi, you are bound to have very many questions..just wait and see. Well, you might have faith in traffic lights and even if it happens that it is green on the other side, I bet your faith will be your saving grace too. Indeed, religion is a very interesting of people's lives. It is basically what defines principles for most people. Sadly, the way of life depends on how we embrace the notion of there being a 'free world.' Amazingly, spirituality is a hullabaloo to other people. |
| Initially, I had brushed off an immediate nudge to go through all these posts but on second thought, decided to so. End times are just that...they will come when almost everything is about to halt. No man can even put pen and paper on when this is likely to happen. Live your life to the fullest and when and if need arises, cover your trails |
| Living life the fullest, how? I think live your life in accordance to God's words. I mean, we all know that sooner or later our time is coming and we will be facing him, i always believe that we will be judge by him and him only. And thus, we must be aware and act as to what the bible tells us so, ofcourse there is free will, but that will is just there to test us unto whether we are to do us to what is right or what is wrong. |
| In other words Hicko, are you suggesting that embracing religion and spirituality means you forgo some of the good things in life? I do not think so. Of course living life to the fullest means different things to different people but in my case, you do not have to worry so much about some mysteries that will not change anything. The hard fact is good and bad is relative and no one will watch you step on their toes |
| I still stand on my opinion, there is nothing wrong in embracing your religion, when you live today make sure that you know the future outcome, and on all aspect of life that includes your spirituality. Life is so short yet not too late to change perspective over things, there is nothing wrong with a little mistakes, just make sure that you knew you are wrong and willing to make the move, the move to correct those mistakes. |
| So what do you mean by that moy? Those stuffs are mysteries because you let those things stay as mystery. Why don't we widen out knowledge and wisdom about religion or spirituality as you address them to be. Though i think it does not all about the religion we are into, but on the things we believe. So those things that we choose our mind to believe are real, and those that are not are 'mysteries'. |
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